EMRFD Message Archive 8906

Message Date From Subject
8906 2013-08-07 16:36:06 Ashhar Farhan ot : about rigol 1052E
can anyone tell me what's the maximum usable frequency of a 1052E? i know
that it can be upgraded to 100 MHz, but can i use it to peak/tune 145MHz
filters?

- farhan


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8907 2013-08-07 17:35:22 Gustavo Villada Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
It can be hacked to 100 mhz, idk how much usable will be in 145

Btw rigol 2072 can be converted to 200 mhz

__
Enviado desde mi celular
On Aug 7, 2013 8:36 PM, "Ashhar Farhan" <farhanbox@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> can anyone tell me what's the maximum usable frequency of a 1052E? i know
> that it can be upgraded to 100 MHz, but can i use it to peak/tune 145MHz
> filters?
>
> - farhan
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8908 2013-08-07 19:07:20 Bob L Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Check eevblog.com.

8909 2013-08-07 19:08:04 Kirk Kleinschmidt Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
As far as I know, only "older" 1052Es can be converted to 100-MHz...the newer firmware is much more "resistant" to being upgraded. Unfortunately, mine is a "newer" model, so I'm reluctant to mess with it.

If anyone can point me to updated instructions, please do so :)

My best guess is, as long as you're just peaking and not looking for calibrated numbers, tweaking 145-MHz filters should be okay.

73,

--Kirk, NT0Z

 
My book, "Stealth Amateur Radio," is now available from
www.stealthamateur.com and on the Amazon Kindle (soon)


> can anyone tell me what's the maximum usable frequency of a 1052E? i know
>> that it can be upgraded to 100 MHz, but can i use it to peak/tune 145MHz
>> filters?
>>
>> - farhan
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8910 2013-08-07 19:45:45 Kerry Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
A down-converter might be suitable.

So 145 MHz into the filter, 145 MHz out, SBL-1 or similar, signal generator set to perhaps 100 MHz and view the 45 MHz IF on the 'scope.

As you only require a narrow band around 145 MHz, filtering the IF would give you a clean signal but it may not even be necessary.

Kerry VK2TIL.
8911 2013-08-07 20:13:03 Andy Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Taking some wild guesses here ...

Because it is a digital sampling scope, there is the possibility that
the rolloff could be much faster than an analog scope with the same
bandwidth. If so, potentially you might not see your 145 MHz (but
that seems unlikely).

Hypothetically, it might also have a sharply tilted rolloff, such that
it varies so strongly with frequency that you shouldn't use it to tune
circuits by sweeping frequency even a little.

You might also get aliasing, so that the 145 MHz signal displays but
looks like the wrong frequency. If the 145 MHz is the only component
present, then that should be OK, I think, for making relative
amplitude measurements.

The specs say the sampling rate is 1 gigasamples/sec max. At that
rate it should sample 145 MHz without aliasing. But expect the sample
rate (and the effective bandwidth) to change depending on horizontal
sweep rate, memory depth, etc.

Andy
8913 2013-08-07 23:13:27 Ashhar Farhan Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
kerry,
I would guess an off-the-shelf 125MHz or 100 MHz oscillator feeding an
ADE-1 should do the trick. I guess a post-mix amp and an LPF would be
mandatory.
Hmm.. I must try this on my ol '465
- f

On 8/8/13, Kerry <planningpower@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> A down-converter might be suitable.
>
> So 145 MHz into the filter, 145 MHz out, SBL-1 or similar, signal generator
> set to perhaps 100 MHz and view the 45 MHz IF on the 'scope.
>
> As you only require a narrow band around 145 MHz, filtering the IF would
> give you a clean signal but it may not even be necessary.
>
> Kerry VK2TIL.
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device
8914 2013-08-08 02:17:33 Dennis Anderson Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Hi All

Has been a lot about Rigol Scopes here:

 http://hackaday.com/?s=rigol+oscilloscopes

Hopefully something there will help somebody in the group

Regards

Dennis G6YBC

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8915 2013-08-08 02:20:34 Lasse Moell Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
When you only got a hammer, the world is full of nails :D

Seriously, I would much prefer to use a simple RF-detector and measure
the level! AD8307 comes to mind, or just a simpe diode would do.
The 1052E was stressed into 100 MHz and going further up would likely to
show at least 6-10 dB fall off. Not a biggie maybe...

The advice seems to be, if you are in the market of a digital scope,
save up for the Rigol 2072. Superior in every way... and now with
hardware rev.2 even more features to come. Price is about doubble but
performance and features are 10x :)

Right now I can only see one draw-back with these new high performance
digital scopes, they suck big time at X-Y mode. If one intend to use it
for a W7ZOI-type of spectrum analyzer, the only way is to let the saw
tooth trig the X-sweep, and try adust timing so the picture will be
useful.

Everything you need and want to know on how to modify your Rigol scope
are found in the forum at EEVblog.com
Cheers
Lasse SM5GLC


On 8 aug 2013 01:36 "Ashhar Farhan" <farhanbox@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> can anyone tell me what's the maximum usable frequency of a 1052E? i
> know
> that it can be upgraded to 100 MHz, but can i use it to peak/tune
> 145MHz
> filters?
>
> - farhan
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8916 2013-08-08 02:22:18 Kerry Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Yes; the design is almost trivial.

The 'scope is, in effect, an LPF as its response rolls-off after its bandwidth specification; you may not need filtering.

If the IF is below 20 MHz you can switch the 'scope bandwidth to <20 MHz so that you have a "sorta" 20 MHz LPF.

The 100/125 MHz oscillator is a good idea; if you have an on-going use for this setup it would be worth building a module with the mixer, oscillator and post-amp in one box.

I've been meaning to build a mixer into a box with BNC connectors; I have several amplifiers with various gains, impedances & NFs and a mixer would be a useful addition.

Rather like a Lego set; just connect the things that are required to make the thing you want. :)

Kerry VK2TIL.
8917 2013-08-08 08:58:31 Ashhar Farhan Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Lasse,
I did try brewing an instrument with an si570 hetrodyned to generate
HF range and an AD8307 power meter, both controlled by an arduino that
was in turn controlled by a PC. You could find it in operation by
searching for 'sweeperino' on youtube.
It had its own set of problems. The harmonic distortions in the
sweeper's output resulted in spurious responses rendering it useles
beyond -50dbc range.
Like all failed experiments, it was an edifying experience. Open
detectors should not be used with sweeps. The spurs and harmonics of
the sweep can result in plots that can range from distorted ones to
those that are grossly wrong!
- farhan

On 8/8/13, Kerry <planningpower@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> Yes; the design is almost trivial.
>
> The 'scope is, in effect, an LPF as its response rolls-off after its
> bandwidth specification; you may not need filtering.
>
> If the IF is below 20 MHz you can switch the 'scope bandwidth to <20 MHz so
> that you have a "sorta" 20 MHz LPF.
>
> The 100/125 MHz oscillator is a good idea; if you have an on-going use for
> this setup it would be worth building a module with the mixer, oscillator
> and post-amp in one box.
>
> I've been meaning to build a mixer into a box with BNC connectors; I have
> several amplifiers with various gains, impedances & NFs and a mixer would be
> a useful addition.
>
> Rather like a Lego set; just connect the things that are required to make
> the thing you want. :)
>
> Kerry VK2TIL.
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device
8918 2013-08-08 12:18:12 Wes Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Hello Farhan, and gang,

Well, it's all about experimental methods.

I went into my "lab" and fired up my Rigol DSO, and an old HP signal generator. I put a 50 Ohm terminator
8924 2013-08-08 19:27:42 Ashhar Farhan Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
wes and others,

my dad tells a tale of two philosophers on the river bank arguing over
whether the dead fish lying between them will float... until a passing by
woman throws it into the water. that's what you did : walked over to the
bench and measured it. the more i think of bob's TMITK("To measure is to
know") the more i marvel at how well he's captured the very essence of Karl
Popper's falsifiablity as the basis of our science - from the Large Hardon
Collider to the primitive test rigs in our home labs.

some of us have pretty professional test gear in the labs. but the
measurements can always be made with the most basic of improvised tools.
nothing shows this as explicitly as this group!

- farhan


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8925 2013-08-08 19:48:36 kb1gmx Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Oddly I did a similar thing to get a good signal generator.
I took the SI570 and rant between 100 and max freq and passed that though a LPF (7 pole) with corner at 180mhz. That was attenuated
and mixed with a 100mhz crystal osc. The DBM had a low pass filter
at 80mhz. The levels had to be right or there were spurs. The
result is remarkably clean at least more than 70db down and that
is enough for many measurement activities. Since both oscillators
are well away from HF it makes for a good easily attenuated source.
Shielding is important as the micro can radiate enough to mask the
true spurs!

The problem with a wide range power detector like the AD8307 is
is sensitivity. It hears everything. Again shielding is everything
or selectivity.

Allison


8927 2013-08-08 21:33:24 Dana Myers Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
8928 2013-08-08 21:36:46 Kerry Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
G'day Wes; nice to have you visit us.

That's a remarkable performance for a 50 MHz 'scope; Rigol are certainly making good instruments these days.

My Tek TDS 320 (100 MHz) stops triggering at 180 MHz; I thought that was good.

The "down-converter" idea was, I'm fairly sure, in older (perhaps 1980s) Handbooks; it was used to allow viewing of 10-metre signals on a 5 or 10 MHz 'scope if my memory is correct.

Kerry VK2TIL.
8929 2013-08-08 23:03:16 Ashhar Farhan Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
dana,

well, it turns out that i do need something that will show me -80 dbc for a
filter. i am designing VHF filters that need to have excellent image
rejection (using 18 MHz IF). I guess that 80 db of image rejection is a
norm these days. This means that we have to measure the response not only
at the frequency of interest but also away from it.

- farhan


8930 2013-08-09 02:16:09 Stephen Farthing Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Farhan,

I think you might like to look at getting a Vector Network Impedance
analyser for the measurements you wish to take.

I use an earlier version of this one :-

http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html
.

I do have a connection with the company as I beta test some of their kits.
They sell a lot to universities and start up companies that cannot afford
the "traditional" suppliers of equipment. Also a lot to radio hams.


Hope this helps,


Steve G0XAR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8931 2013-08-09 02:41:57 Ashhar Farhan Re: ot : about rigol 1052E
Yes, I have just bought an N2PK. But it doesn't go beyond 60 MHz.
- farhan

On 8/9/13, Stephen Farthing <squirrox@gmail.com> wrote:
> Farhan,
>
> I think you might like to look at getting a Vector Network Impedance
> analyser for the measurements you wish to take.
>
> I use an earlier version of this one :-
>
> http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html
> .
>
> I do have a connection with the company as I beta test some of their kits.
> They sell a lot to universities and start up companies that cannot afford
> the "traditional" suppliers of equipment. Also a lot to radio hams.
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> Steve G0XAR
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device