EMRFD Message Archive 10454
Message Date From Subject 10454 2014-11-14 09:35:16 Ashhar Farhan retrieving submerged components and rigs a cloud burst flooded my shack (in the basement of the house) with over a foot of water. this was two days ago. today, when i opened up one of the steel chests that i keep my junk in, i saw it had three inches of standing water inside the chest!here is a list of things that i am particularly concerned about saving.. can you people give me suggestion as to how to save them?1. Transformers. i have collected over 10 transformers of various voltages and ratings over the years. they are all looking submerged.2. valves. from 4cx250s, to a 8877 to regular 12AT7s. i have more than 100 of these lying in drenched packing. i dont want to take out the packaging if can help it. most of the markings are on the packaging.3. slow motion drives, variable capacitors, one variable inductor.4. an HW-8.there, i have named them all!!- farhan 10455 2014-11-14 09:57:15 Mike Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs I don't have any direct experience to share on this subject. However, if you also post this question to the yahoo Tekscopes user group (you obviously would have to join the group), I think you would probably get some good advice. The Tekscopes user group has at times discussed washing (submerging in soap and water) of Tektronix oscilloscopes as part of a restoration process (and there are many hams in the Tekscopes user group) so I think a post would yield some informed and well-thought responses. And if my own basement floods at some future date, I'll be a bit more savvy too!
10456 2014-11-14 10:12:04 blumu Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Sorry to hear of your plight, Farhan.
All should be salvable if you can dry it out gently and thoroughly.
The transformers are the most vulnerable. Once thoroughly
dried out, a careful inter-winding resistance check would be
advisable. The HW8 might need a bit more TLC.
If in doubt, airfreight it one-way to me :-)
I inherited a stock of ancient valves (proper term...), many
with markings washed out and off. As you remove them
from their soggy boxes, either number and log them or
mark them with a glass marker pen.
Good luck - and keep us posted!
----- Original Message ----- From: Ashhar Farhan
a cloud burst flooded my shack (in the basement of the house) with over a foot of water. this was
two days ago. today, when i opened up one of the steel chests that i keep my junk in, i saw it had
three inches of standing water inside the chest!
here is a list of things that i am particularly concerned about saving.. can you people give me
suggestion as to how to save them?
1. Transformers. i have collected over 10 transformers of various voltages and ratings over the
years. they are all looking submerged.
2. valves. from 4cx250s, to a 8877 to regular 12AT7s. i have more than 100 of these lying in
drenched packing. i dont want to take out the packaging if can help it. most of the markings are on
3. slow motion drives, variable capacitors, one variable inductor.
4. an HW-8.
10457 2014-11-14 10:12:40 Eamon Egan Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Aside from the packaging, the valves will of course not be affected. You could pre-emptively re-label them before doing anything else, in case the packaging fades.Hello Farhan,
Well first of all, please accept my condolences for whatever cannot or will not be revived :) And sympathies for all the cleanup required in any case...After drying everything off as well as possible with paper towels, the best approach might be to put the items to be salvaged in your oven, in batches, to be baked at a fairly low setting (perhaps 70-80C, as a first guess). Of course, be attentive to any adhesives, potting or conformal coating that might melt at a given temperature.
The transformers are among the most problematic, depending of course on the voltage or typical impedance they run at. The key question here is how do you test them to tell whether the heat treatment is adequate. It would be a shame to under-bake a high voltage transformer and then damage it with arcing by powering it up to test it prematurely.Eamon
10458 2014-11-14 10:15:42 Gary Ekker Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Farhan,I hope this is some use to you. In the past, an office flood caused serious damage to important paper files. What worked pretty well in this situation was freezing. Freezing will draw the moisture into the air. A solution might be to put items in your freezer. For larger items, you could use a styrofoam ice chest and dry ice. Just a thought - hope it helps. It's worth a try.Best of luck,Gary/KF7WNS 10459 2014-11-14 10:18:10 Dave Daniel Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs If you are going to join the TekScopes group (assuming you are not already a member), I would suggest also joining the TekScopes2 group. The two have different membership lists. Taken together the membership list is quite large. Belonging to both obviously allows one to post a question to a wider audience.
To provide an even wider audience, the hp_agilent group also has a large membership.
10460 2014-11-14 10:28:08 Eamon Egan Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Farhan,Eamon
one more thing... if the flood water is as dirty as one might expect it to be, you may need to rinse items in clean or even de-ionized or distilled water prior to trying to dry them out.
10461 2014-11-14 10:30:30 Al Bonnyman Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Before drying these items, I strongly recommend you rinse them very thoroughly with clean water to remove any potentially conductive or corrosive sediments left by 10462 2014-11-14 10:32:47 Al Bonnyman Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Oops, somehow I accidentally sent that before finishing it.Flood water is usually full of sediment and corrosive stuff. Plus your steel chest may have had dirt and rust in the bottom.Get all this stuff off now with clean water while it's still damp. You don't want to bake or dry this stuff on to your components.Ideally, for your last rinse, use distilled or de-ionized water (or maybe alcohol?) I say "ideally" since that may be too expensive or too difficult.Good luck -- you've contributed so much to the rest of us globally, so I'm sorry this has happened to you.Al BonnymanRome, Georgia U.S.A.KM4BYJ 10464 2014-11-14 11:10:22 Chris Howard w0ep Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Un-expert advice: for the mechanical parts, reduction drives, large air variable caps, etc,
I would rinse them off well as others have said, then probably spray them liberally with WD-40
and wipe them down with a rag or paper towels.
10465 2014-11-14 19:49:52 kb1gmx Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Farhan,The tubes/Valves are washable. The markings are likely to be lost though. leaving them wet willinduce electrolytic corrosion and that's bad. Wash sooner than later!Transfomers, rinse in clear water bake in oven to dry them out well.Motor drive must be cleaned even if it means opening them up!The HW8 other than the meter can be washed and dried.Its hard work but everything can be salvaged if acted on quickly.Allison 10466 2014-11-14 20:00:57 kb1gmx Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Everything that was in the water needs to be cleaned of all sediment and foreign matter.I used to service radio gear a lot of years ago and anything that had been dropped off a boat(into salt water) was immediately plunged into freshwater then opened and very carefullyrinsed well. The idea being to remove any unwanted materials especially salt. People wouldreact in horror until it was explained that if you do not clean it out moisture and time willget the gear. Usually if this were done soon after the dunking the change of getting thegear back to 100% was good. Things like meters, motors, and speakers were alwaysharder as you had to carefully open and clean them then re-lubricate where needed.Also oddly enough in production environments freshly made boards are washed in wateror water soluble cleaning agents to remove flux residues.Wash everything well in clear water. Use detergent if needed to remove oils and rinse wellafter.Then bake at 170-180 degrees to remove all traces of the rinse water. Especially transformerswhich can be baked at higher temps to drive out moisture.I've done this to old gear caked with grime. Remove meters, non sealed relays and otheritems that can't get wet ever or cant be dried easily. Wash in a dish washer(no caustic soaps) and then dry in an oven. Did this to a really dirty FT200 that hadwhat seemed to be motor oil on the chassis. I now use that radio often after doingthat to it many years ago.Allison/KB1GMX 10468 2014-11-14 22:54:41 email@example.com... Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs
thanks all. i will bake the tranformers tomorrow.the caps will take longer i supp.
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10469 2014-11-15 00:24:29 Sandeep Lohia Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs 10470 2014-11-15 00:35:39 Russell Shaw Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs 10471 2014-11-15 08:28:44 iq_rx Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Hi Farhan, Allison and all,I've cleaned up and used many components and radios that have been submerged. In my youth, that was a primary source of gear and parts, as I lived in an area with frequent flooding and such things were cheap or free. The experience from those days has evolved, and I now routinely give almost everything I pick up from the flea market a good cleaning and fresh water bath. Allison's posts cover most of what I do, but here are a few tips I haven't yet seen on this thread:If things are dry but dirty I use dry paint brushes with various bristles and a shop vacuum to dust off as much of the surface dirt as possible before washing. Otherwise the external dirt gets in the water bath and inside the parts.Anything that will let water inside will also let air inside for drying--including transformers with exposed paper. I rinse first with fresh water, then really soak them and scrub the exposed metal parts with a little mild dish soap and a toothbrush. Then thoroughly rinse again in fresh water, shake and wipe off as much off of the water as I can, and then slowly dry for a week or so. In summer, that might mean letting things sit outside in the sun during the day. In winter, I set them on top of a piece of vintage gear like an old receiver with a dozen tubes. The key is to get the temperature up about ten degrees above ambient and let the water dry out. Don't worry about getting the paper wet--it will dry just fine. Just be careful with it while it's wet, and dry it for a long time.For sealed components, I just scrub the outside and dry them off as above.For mechanical parts like reduction drives, I follow a gentle external scrubbing with mild detergent and toothbrush with quick drying, and then a thin layer of machine oil to prevent rust during the long, slow dry. I avoid WD-40 and penetrating oil on reduction drives, as that tends to get inside and corrupt the grease. Much experience on that score.I've had bad experience with too much heat. A few decades ago I used to remove paper components and run things through a dishwasher, but modern appliances really bake things, and can remove paint and melt plastics. Many transformers have some wax inside, and you want to be careful heating that too much. It took longer to clean the dishwasher...Approach cleaning as an educational opportunity, and experiment. It sounds like everything 10472 2014-11-15 09:37:30 firstname.lastname@example.org... Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs there should be no issues with transformers, I suppose, Farhhan jee. just dry them for few days in Sun. most of them would restore, unless the water is acidic and enamel insulation of copper wire gets effected.
no problems at all. but possible that those with Bakelite bottom with pins like 6V6 etc, the wires might get rusted and broken. instead of removing the packing after drying, perhaps better to seperate them whilke wet including carton, so that name of vale could be made out.
Geared variable caps, i fear that the aluminum fins could get etched off and change the properties.
. if they are brass made like old Philips etc , there could be no issues except re-greasing the bearings etc.
10473 2014-11-15 10:33:54 Al Bonnyman Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs One more thought - as you put things away, store some desiccant with them. This could be "professional" (i.e., store-bought desiccant) or simply very dry rice (assuming you can keep vermin out). Don't use salt, though.With desiccant , if your drying process has missed anything, this might help further.Good luck,Al BonnymanKM4BYJ 10474 2014-11-15 12:04:06 DuWayne KV4QB Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs A good source of dessicant is silica-gel that is sold as kitty-litter. There are several brands of it at most pet stores or even wallmart caries it. Just put a small pile in the middle of a paper towel, fold over to make a small package and seal with tape. Place a couple of these , the equipment to be dried in a sealed plastic bag. Have been to save a couple of phones that were dropped in water this way.
10476 2014-11-15 16:26:09 Dave Hartman Re: retrieving submerged components and rigs Maybe you can find an environmental test lab that can take the stuff to
10,000M or so altitude and suck the water out.
73 Dave - AC2GL
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